How do you know her?
I don't know, I suppose she's a fellow…I was going to say a fellow socialist she's really a progressive academic, but I'm not an academic at all, I never even went to university. Although I have a very famous son about whom I love to talk. Professor David Forman is one of the world's Cancer experts who worked with Sir Richard Doll, the bloke who discovered the link between lung Cancer and smoking many years ago.
What film has impressed you the most so far?
Without a doubt the film on Chile called Images of a Dictatorship, I've got to know the director, Patricio Henriquez who's been living in Canada since Pinochet's fascist coup. It was tremendously powerful, all the things that I respect in filmmaking are in this picture and its so strong because it combines the identification of the camera and the editing with the magic of ordinary people demonstrating. In a curious way you are magically transported to the streets of Santiago, you almost feel what's like to be blown away by water cannons. I've only just met the chap because he lives in Montreal, in fact I'm looking at him right now.
Oh that's him is it? He was deported during the coup was he not?
Oh God yes! Anyway, continue.
How far do you think documentary has come in the 50 years you've been a filmmaker?
Well has it come far at all? It all started off with people like Dziga Vertov in the former Soviet Union and people, in British terms, like Ivor Montague - my mentor. This is the man that brought me into the film business, although I don't look upon it as a business, I look upon it as a calling. Over 50 years ago, Ivor founded the ATT trade union, now called BECTU, he founded the first London film society in the 1920's, a key figure he was the son of a Lord and he was an active communist. One doesn't normally associate the aristocracy with the British communist party, listed - as you know - until 1991 but Ivor Montague was a marvellous man. He was a writer, he loved table tennis, he was a filmmaker, he assisted Hitchcock a number of times and he also wrote the script for Scott of the Antarctic. In terms of the heroes of progressive cinema, there were 3 in Britain: Ivor Montague, a very active chap in the union called Ralph Bond and a more successful chap in TV called Sidney Cole. They are all dead now of course - alas and I'm the last survivor but I wasn't part of that triumvirate, I was only born in 1921 so in the 30's I was still at school.
Did you manage to catch the Sorious Samura masterclass?
No, I've heard of him but I don't know him.
How do you think the founders of Labour Monthly would feel about you being here now?
Oh they'd be tickled pink, oh yes. The journal was a curious leitmotif…I entered the left movement in 1936, during the Spanish civil war and for me, that Marxist journal, edited by Rajani Palme-Dutt and Robin Page Arnott, was always a way of keeping in touch with what was happening. Above all it kept you in touch with the progressive movements in France and Italy and America, it wasn't just the long arm of the Soviets. Honestly, it wasn't like that and if you study the volumes of Labour Monthly over the 50 years you'll see that - it's why I made 50 Fighting Years at the suggestion of Montague. It's been a very significant of the youth of my adult life.
What's going to happen to Plato Films now?
That's very interesting because technically Plato Films is being wound down. Its because of the libel action I was involved in with the Nazi General Speigel, the Operation Teutonic Sword story, it's all written up in Bert Hogencamp's and Margaret Dickenson's books that are on sale around the corner from here. He was a Nazi General who was involved in the 1934 murders of King Alexander of Yugoslavia and of Monsieur Barthou, the French foreign minister. The Speigel affair is very simple but the libel action is very complicated. The East German's had two talented director's - a married couple - called Andrew and Annelie Thorndyke, they made a series of films called The Archive's Testify. Its about a Nazi bastard called Rheinefaht who found himself mayor or Burgermeister of a well known holiday island called Sylt, we never got a certificate and it's all in Bert Hogencamp's book. The big thing that happened to us that relates to the coming end Plato Films was that they made a film about Speigel in 1934, he was Hitler's defence attaché in the Nazi embassy in Paris. There was an attempt by King Alexander and Monsieur Barthou to form a rapprochement, a front between Yugoslavia and France against Nazi Germany because, quite rightly, they feared what Hitler was capable of. The film alleged, with very strong evidence from current GDR secret service members that Speigel was involved in the very successful assassinations of these two men. It was filmed by Pathé because it was a royal visit and the footage still exists. It made all other sorts of allegations, about betraying Rommel to the Nazi's but the libel dilemma for us was that the British Law Courts could not accept the proof made up of photocopied documents received by east German spies in Bonn. In the end, although we took on Speigel with the financial help of the East German government, it lasted for 3 years from '59 to '61. It went to the House of Lords on a legal point and we never lost, we never won. The East German's got fed up with it because they realised that they would never be able to win without the real evidence and we realised that we could never get the evidence. We only had these blasted photocopies and a tape from Erwin Rommel, Mannfred, the famous Nazi Marshall…not Nazi, German Marshall who committed suicide during the trials after the war. It was all about the July 20th plot against the life of Hitler. I was immediately advised to sell my house to my wife, then we had to form another company - ETV in 1961 - because if we lost the case we'd lose the company and all it's possessions. The case changed all the libel laws in this country but don't ask me to explain that but it's in Bert Hogencamp's book called Film, Television & The Left 1950 - 1970.
An incredible story!
Yes. The reason why the German's made the film was that Speigel was the head of NATO, central European land forces, NATO!
